Forum Activity for @Mike3

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I can't get around straining, but I am still interested in the time savings I'd get with the pregrinder + cocoatown set up. I'm making around 100 lbs a week, and that will go up if I can cut down the processing time.

Brad--I'm glad you chimed in because your set up is part of what got me thinking about alternative refining/grinding methods. Can you clarify though---with your refiners, how do chunks make it through? Or is there so much left inside after running a batch through, you need to scrape out the insides where there are nibs in various degrees of refinement? I picture these refiners and pregrinders as similar to my espresso grinder (a commercial burr grinder), where anything that doesn't fit through the set gap size doesn't come out the other end.

I think I read on chocolate alchemy that the champion's cutter wheel needs to be replaced every 250-300 lbs of beans. It's not impervious to damage, it's just plastic and steel.

I have a champion juicer. I had it before I started making chocolate, and used it all the time. I think it cost me something like $350 CDN. When I first started "pre-grinding" my nibs, the burs were sharp. Within just a few uses, the burs were dull and more or less useless for anything.

I started heating the nibs, cocoa butter, and even the bowl and wheelsof my santha knock-off, and never looked back. Regardless of whether I preground stuff or not, it was still taking the same amount of time to drive off the volatiles. I wish I would have known sooner. It would have saved me yet one more damaged piece of kitchen equipment thanks to those rock hard cocoa nibs!

Most of the artisans I communicate regularly with on another forum have also stopped using the juicer (including the forum owner himself), as there is no real benefit found from it - just cost.

Now having said that, if you are simply looking at particle reduction, well.... I guess it could save time. However in my opinion that takes a backseat to flavour development, and to be candid, happens anyway when developing a good flavour.

Cheers.

Brad

Brad -

Are you sure there's NO benefit? I my experience, it's a lot easier and faster to fill a CocoaTown with liquor than it is using nib. Also, because of the pre-grind step, batches tend to need to spend less time in the CocoaTown to get to the desired PSD. For the same reasons, I find that pre-grinding the sugar also reduces the amount of time needed in the CocoaTown.

For very small batch production it's one of the things that a Champion is good for, and I also refine up the whole vanilla bean in the sugar in the food processor.

Now - it's important to note that these pre-grind steps, especially when it comes to sugar, can have an effect on the final taste of the chocolate. So it's important to pay attention so you know what's going on.

And I completely agree, Brad -- sieves are very cheap and I would recommend that they be used for all production, no matter what type of machinery is being used, and even if pre-grinding is used. YOU NEVER KNOW what might be in the chocolate. A piece of metal could flake off. A sieve will catch it (especially if it is magnetized).

Mike;

Grinding your nibs prior to putting them into the cocoatown mill, will not eliminate the need to strain your chocolate. It is an imperfect device. I use conche/refiners specifically designed for making chocolate, and we ALWAYS find nibs when we drain it out. The only time you wouldn't need to strain your chocolate would be if you are using a roll refinerfor your sugar and cocoa beans prior to putting them into your machine.

A good commercial sieve way cheaper and a heck of a lot less messy than another machine.

For very small scale, there is no benefit/need to pre-milling your nibs and sugar.

Thanks Ben and Sebastian for your replies. Ben, thanks for posting the video link, I'd seen it before and it does look like peanut butter, but I'd like to know if chunks come through, or if the paste is a uniform particle size.

Sebastian--I'd be running just nibs through the pre-grinder prior to loading them in a Cocoatown refiner. My budget pretty much limits me to buying an Olde Tyme nut butter grinder, like the one in the video Ben posted. With the Cocoatown, no matter how much scraping I do, there always seems to be a few nibs that don't get refined and have to be strained out prior to molding. A pre-grinder, so long as no chunks come through, would eliminate the straining step. Knowing the particle size would help me determine how much refining time I'd save with pre-grinding.

Depends a great deal on the specifics - what type of pre grinder? how's it configured? what are you running through it (EXACT %'s), your % fat in your paste, how big your particles are to begin with (ie 1000 um sugar will result in a very different end product than if you start with 500 um sugar).

I don't know the particle size, but I'd imagine it's similar to what you'd get running peanuts through it. It's kind of a thick, chunky paste. To get an idea of the consistency, see this video from Dandelion Chocolate:

http://www.dandelionchocolate.com/2011/08/15/new-first-stage-grinder/

Hi All,

I'm considering adding a pre-grinder to my set up (probably a nut butter type), but I'm wondering if any one out there already using one can tell me what particle size you get after a single pass through? Is it the same particle size you'd get running peanuts through it?

Thanks,

Mike

Clay, taking the temp to 120F and holding for about 45 minutes worked well!The chocolate looks and tastes good.

Thanks for the tip- I thought I posted this before.

Prob not what you want to hear - but i'd most likely discard it.

Thanks Sebastian, sorry for the confusion; it is milk chocolate not milk crystals. No "balls" of stuff just no shine.

how do you know they're 'milk crystals' (and what are milk crystals?)

110F for 3 months is an *awefully* long time to let chocolate sit. my strong suspicion is that, if you've got 'balls' of stuff that won't process out - it either got wet, or the temperature cycled higher than what you believe and you've got protein denaturation (or possibly lactose crystallization).

Either way, i'd not want to eat it after spending 3 months at 110F. Toss it.

Try ModPac or aspecialtybox.com. ModPac is cheaper but requires a larger minimum order for the lower price. In case lots of 250 ModPac is WAY cheaper.

We are preparing for our first retail opportunity. We need a supplier for a 1/2lb box who has a clear top or window box so that people can see our offerings. Our product will be on a shelf rather than bulk in a case so people need to be able to see what they are getting. We would prefer to use trays rather than paper cups as separators.

Our current box is a 5 3/4" square with a nine piece tray.

I don't know if we are ready for a custom box yet but will entertain offers from suppliers for those as well.

Thanks

Tony

Many also contain potassium sorbate as a preservative. I know that Mandelin doesn't use synthetic flavoring, and they will make itcustom for you without the preservative. I don't remember what the minimum quantity is for a custom batch without preservative. It may be way more than you want. They have a number of styles of paste and almond products. I like their blanched sliced almonds.It might be worth checking out.

With regard to the high fructose corn syrup issue, just switch to honey as a sweetener. I believe you can get unscented honey, and it has roughly the same glucose/fructose ratio as HFCS, and the best part is it's all natural.

I could be wrong, but from what I've read, HFSC and Honey are both synthesized using enzymes. Bees synthesize invertase naturally while making honey to convert some of the glucose to fructose, and "big" industry uses other enzymes such as Glucose isomerase, which produced through fermentation with microorganisms. A variety of bacteria cultures are used to create Glucose isomerase.

Regardless, fructose is a sweetener that exists naturally. The fact that you use a little more fructose in your chocolates to preserve the shelf life isn't a big deal. Ask your client if they are going to stop eating fruit and honey too....

I'm all for making ingredients when possible, but I have tried to make almond paste, and I can never get it as smooth as the stuff made with industrial equipment.

Maybe someone out there has an answer to this challenge?

Failing that, there are lots of other things to make which don't use almond paste. I've resigned myself to that.

So, I'm looking at some recipes using Almond Paste, and I'm not sure which would be better, making my own or buying it.

How about you guys? What do you do for your almond paste? Do you go ALL hand-made and do it yourself, or do you purchase already made?

The main reason I ask is because the storefront I have my chocolates in is VERY health conscious. There was an issue a couple months back when they realized the corn syrup I was using had high fructose corn syrup in it, and they forced me to take all the candies and chocolates with it off the shelved. I lost over $500 in product from that bullcrap, and I don't want to deal with it again. Every container of almond paste I find online with ingredients listed lists a "synthetic bitter almond oil", and I don't want that on my ingredient lists if it's worth it to make my own...

Mine squeaked SO loud when I first got it aswell, I figured I would post so you know what I did and so you know you are not alone.

Honestly I didnt do anything different, I just dealt with the squeak and about 2 days later of grinding chocolate it went away and I havn't heard it since. It just needs to grind itself out essentially!

Steven

Clay,

To make it easier on backs and rotating inventory, we are looking at upright freezers. If the temp is going to be between 55-65, would a refrigerator be ok also using the same thermostat override device and humidity absorbers? If getting a freezer, do we want one specifically that doesn't self defrost? I appreciate all the advice. Do you have links to where to buy those as well as the chocolate making machines?

Corey (Sara's husband)

For going to markets I use a Cambro carrier with slots for half sheet pans and a freezer pack. Be sure to wrap each tray of Chocolates in plastic wrap so they don't spill inside the carrier. I use clear hotel pans filled with ice to display product on my table, but most of my stock is in the Cambro. This setup will work up to about 95F with a shade canopy. Above that its officially To Hot For Chocolate.

Thank you for the advice. Now just have to figure out what size freezer we need. What do people do that sell at outdoor markets? How do you keep everything from melting?

Sara:

In the discussion Larry links to, I point out that the least expensive storage solution is a chest freezer with a thermostat override. You can set the temp of the freezer to be in the 55-65F range, which is perfect for storage. Because the top opens, less cold air leaks out than when using a front-opening fridge.

Sara,

I hear you and share the pain of meltage. You can override your refrigerator's thermostat with some add on equipment. You can also control the humidity with additional stuff. Check out this discussion.

http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/can-you-store-finished?commentId=1978963%3AComment%3A53471

Have a great day!

Larry

We need some help. We produce our chocolate in NY. We had a heat wave, for April at least, and it went to 81 degrees. When I went to package some chocolates, they were soft and starting to melt. We turned on the air conditioners in the house but need a real solution. Someone suggested buying a refrigerator but I am pretty sure we would need a commercial one that can be set to between 60-70 degrees. I know people use wine fridges because they go to those temperatures for red wine. Any one have this dilemma and have a solution?

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for these guidelines. That's exactly what I've been looking for. I'll start by increasing the corn syrup slightly, with a corresponding decrease in caster sugar and see how this affects crystallization and flow.

Cheers,

Alan

I would appreciate any suggestions on how to prevent delayed crystallization of my caramels. I have been using Recchiuti's Fleur de Sel recipe from his 'Chocolate Obsession' book which uses the dry technique for making caramels. I've noticed that my caramels start graining up about a week out, despite enrobing them in chocolate and storing them in a sealed container to hopefully limit moisture attraction. I'm wondering if there isn't enough 'doctoring agent' in this recipe? Here is my current recipe:

5 drops Lemon Juice
298 g Sugar
1/2 Vanilla Bean
232 g (1 cup) whipping cream
38 g light corn syrup
14 g 82% Butter
1/2 tsp fleur de sel

Are there any general guidelines for the ratio of corn syrup to sugar? If I do increase the corn syrup and decrease the sugar by equal amounts, will this affect the texture of the caramels.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Alan

No. However, the warmer you keep them, or the higher humidity they are stored in, the higher the potential for infestation - just as with any raw agricultural commodity.

Wait, I'm confused. I was under the impression that PHF's are foods that need to be refrigerated for storage. Do un-roasted beans need to be refrigerated?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentially_Hazardous_Food

if unroasted, yes. they are likely to contain harmful bacteria. also, if you throw them really, really hard at someone, it can be hurtful.

Pozdrav, Predrae!